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Betting high with Civia Cycles
September 27th, 2007 by Tim Grahl 
Quality Bicycle Supplies (who also owns Salsa, Surly and Dimension/Problem Solvers) showed off their new brand today. Civia Cycles are incredibly high end commuter bikes spec’d and priced higher than anything else I’ve seen on the market.
They are launching with four builds available of the Hyland… Rohloff, Alfine, Derailer and Singlespeed.
Each Hyland comes with proprietary aluminum fenders painted to match frame, proprietary carbon fork, front and rear post-mount disc brake tabs, chainguard, proprietary rear rack and proprietary sliding dropouts.
The specs that are common on each build are:
Frame Civia Hyland
Fork Civia Carbon
Headset Cane Creek S-8
Crank Shimano Alfine
Chain Shimano
Brakeset Shimano Alfine Hydraulic Disc
Seatpost Thomson Elite
Saddle Selle Italia C2
Stem Thomson X2 (31.8)
Handlebar Salsa Pro Moto 17 degree bend (31.8)
Grips ODI Rogue Lock-on
Tires Panaracer T-serv 700×28, with reflective sidewall
Fenders Civia Aluminum Fenders
Rear Rack Civia Aluminum Rack
Chainguard Civia Aluminum Chainguard
Headlight Shimano LP R600 Generator Powered
And here are the parts that are different for each build and the tentative pricing:
Rholoff Build: $3100
Shifter Rohloff twist-shift
Wheel (Rear) Rohloff Speedhub, 14 speed, DT Swiss x470 disc specific rim
Wheel (Front) Schmidt SON Dynamo, DT Swiss x470 disc specific rim
Sliding Dropouts Rohloff specific
Alfine Build: $2200
Shifter Shimano Alfine Rapid-Fire
Wheel (Rear) Shimano Alfine Internal 8-speed, DT Swiss x470 disc specific rim
Wheel (Front) Shimano Alfine Dynamo, DT Swiss x470 disc specific rim
Sliding Dropouts Alfine/Singlespeed specific
Derailer Build: $2200
Shifter Shimano XT Rapid-Fire
Wheel (Rear) Shimano XT Hub, DT Swiss x470 disc specific rim
Sliding Dropouts Derailleur specific
Singlespeed Build: $1900
Shifters n/a
Wheel (Rear) Surly New Hub, DT Swiss x470 disc specific rim
There is no doubt whatsoever that these bikes are worth the price being asked, however I think it’s a huge gamble to market a $3100 bike in the United States market.
It will be incredibly interesting to see how/if they sell.
Do you think there’s a market for this kind of bike in the US?
September 27th, 2007 at 1:39 am
i don’t get these bikes. why would you buy this instead of something practical?
September 27th, 2007 at 1:42 am
Those are very expensive. The problem with super premium commuter bikes is one of security. People don’t have a problem spending that kind of money on a race bike(or race wannabe bike), because most Madones(for example) are never out of the owner’s sight. They go from garage to car to road and back. I can’t imagine locking a $3100 bike to a rack all day. For the price they’re asking, Civia should be offering lugged steel—-and they should AT LEAST be offering a set of high end panniers.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:44 am
I have to say, if I hadn’t just built a new bike, I would be on one of these in a heartbeat! I spent $2,000 on a bike built around the Surly Karate Monkey frame, and still have to add a dyno hub and lighting system to it. This thing would be my ideal bike, and probably end up being cheaper than what I am spending on my custom.
Now if there is a real market besides me, I can’t say. I have been biking in cities for almost 30 years, and have such a specific idea what I want from a bike, that I never imagined that any company would make exactly the right product, and built a custom. I don’t think there are a whole lot of people like me out there, but I think any one like me would be more than happy to pay for one of these bikes.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:47 am
Okay, I was wrong about the breezer. THIS is the bike for dudes driving BMW 8 series with more money than sense. For that price you could get something made for you from the ground up by a custom builder like ANT, Bilenky or Inglis.
September 27th, 2007 at 2:13 am
Brian, as someone who just built a bike that is quite similar to this one, and as someone who would have bought one of these without a thought if they had been available when I started building mine, I’m willing to field the “why” question.
When I first started using my bike for actual transportation, back in my teens, I had a BMX-style bike. By the time I was out of High School, I had moved to touring bikes. Then I went to more racing-style bikes, and then to more commuter style bikes, before getting out of cycling for several years. When I decided to get back into cycling just recently, I realized that all my various experiences had left me with a very specific list of things I wanted from a bike, all based on problems I had experienced in the past with my various bikes. When I started looking at off-the-shelf bikes, I realized that none of them addressed all of my list of requirements, and so I was going to have to hand-pick the components, to get everything I wanted.
Since this is replacing a car, cost wasn’t much of an issue. Not if spending a little more money would get me something that I knew would be safer, more durable, and more agile on the road. I wanted a bike that didn’t have all the failings of my previous bikes, and combined all their strengths. That was well worth the money, and at least in my mind quite practical.
September 27th, 2007 at 2:57 am
By the way, Dr. Logan, for that price you could get a *frame* from Bilenky or Inglis, but after adding comparable components, you would have paid far more than $3,100. A Rolhoff hub will cost you around a grand itself!
Oh, and by the way, back when I had a car it was a VW, not a BMW
September 27th, 2007 at 5:30 am
Lets blame bike parking as a reason not to innovate or market to commuters. Lets all ride POS commuters from the thrift store.
Good on Quality. Price is completely relative. And “more $$ than brains” is also highly subjective. Both of these things are relative to a lot of things - things that typically are hard to quantify outside of each individual’s situation. Maybe folks who would pay $3k for a commuter don’t use a car and are looking for a complete bike commuting package? Maybe they lock up all day inside their place of work? Perhaps they see the incredible value of the bicycle and to them $3k is cheap? Perhaps our American market needs to grow up.
That all said I can sell a fully equipped Dutch City bike for about half of that… but it doesn’t have a Rohloff. Time will tell if this works. For the price of the upper end model you could buy it just to swap out the speedhub and then re-outfit the bike with a Nexus.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:37 am
Mike—no need to get all testy and whatnot. I personally don’t see where there’s an ounce of difference between the $710 Raleigh Detour Deluxe and the Civia—except for the Rohloff hub. Don’t they weigh a ton?
The Dutch don’t ride expensive commuters. Most of what they ride are POS(to use your term).
The bike manufacturers are trying to ride the next wave of hipness. The MTB thing petered out, the high end road bike thing is saturated, fixies and singles are peaking, so now commuters are hot. I personally thing a bike like the Trek Portland(if Trek specced it with real fenders), is a great solution. But if people want to spend three grand on glorified hybrids, so be it.
Gary Fisher is going to sell a TON of Simple Citys. A ton. Several tons, actually, I think.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:48 am
I sell Dutch bikes. I wouldn’t call the ones I bring in POS.
Rohloff’s add some weight - but are you playing the weight weenie game on a commuter? Throw some waterbottles, a change of clothes, groceries, and your laptop on there and weight becomes far less an issue.
GF may well do that and I hope they do.
Civia may be looking for the next wave. I haven’t seen the bikes first hand - so I can’t comment - but isn’t more people on bikes - more products for cyclists - more options, choices, and awareness a good thing?
Some commuters carp all over the roadie in full kit on carbon ti frame riding to work or the coffee shop, then they pick on a higer priced offering for bikes, then they’ll blast the market that there aren’t options out there for them in bike shops.
I don’t get it.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:56 am
Mike—I’m not saying your Dutch bikes are POS. But bike theft is so high in Amsterdam that people there don’t invest a whole lot, or so I’ve heard.
Of course I’m not playing the weight weenie game on a commuter, but expensive bikes should either be light OR handmade. These bikes appear to be neither. Sure, they have
More people on bikes is indeed the idea. Functional, affordable bikes would be a good place to start. $1900 singlespeed hybrid? Give me a break. Another poster mentioned that one can have a custom ANT made for the cost of the Rohloff Civia. He’s right, or darn close.
People can ride whatever the heck they wish to ride, of course. I just don’t understand why someone would buy the Civia when there are MUCH more affordable options which are identical in function. Again, is there much difference between the $710 Raleigh Detour Deluxe and the Civia(non-Rohloff)? How many bike shops are going to commit floor space to super-luxury hybrids? I wish them well, but I also wish them LUCK.
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September 27th, 2007 at 7:02 am
I must say, these are exactly the kinds of bikes I’ve been trying to find. They are expensive — but I’m probably going to start saving up now.. Just my opinion.
September 27th, 2007 at 7:24 am
I won’t rehash all that’s been said, other than to wonder if I could have afforded this thing if they’d left off the carbon.
One comment, though. At least $1900 for this bike, and that’s the best freaking grip they could come up with.
September 27th, 2007 at 8:20 am
I think there is a place for them, but again you can get a custom Indy Fab with a nexus hub for that.
Do they have a wide selection of accessories?
September 27th, 2007 at 9:00 am
@LM Lloyd:
I understand the need for this type of bike at a philosophical level, I just don’t think this is going to speak to most people for a commuting bike. I had written a big long useless tirade about the carbon/alum frame choices, but I wanted to listen to what other people had to say. I personally think you could build a much nicer, longer lasting, more comfortable bike for a lot less money, especially with the purchasing power of QBP behind you. I suppose the target market for these type of bikes is the guy who’s buying the Madone to get to the coffee shop, which I don’t understand either. But, if it gets that guy to start seeing bikes as something to use for commuting and other transportation, then it is all good. A rising tide floats all boats and the more people riding the better!
September 27th, 2007 at 9:01 am
Wow, that Alfine groupo must be expensive. Some how that Breezer doesn’t look too expensive now!! Ha Ha Ha
I wonder how versitile this bike is. I mean could you use this bike to tour on both road ways and gravel and minimum maintenance roads? Does it handle well enough to take tons of weight distributed on the frame for doing trips to the local grocery store? Could a guy do Trans Iowa or the Dirty Kanza on this bike? Could you put some fatty tires on this bike and take it on some light single track? Is the bike sturdy enough for the guy who is going to put 10,000 mi/year on it?
For the price they want, then it better do everything I am asking and not require much maintenance either.
But that is just me.
Peace out
September 27th, 2007 at 9:10 am
Interesting idea, and nice bikes (although I don’t like the poo-brown colour), but I think (and many of the preceding comments seem to confirm) that they’re swimming against the tide.
Certainly in Australia, and I suspect in the USA, the bike trade seems to be based on the model of “sell the bike cheap and then nickel and dime the rider to death on high-margin accessories”. That’s presumably why I see bikes advertised as “ideal commuters”, which come with no lights, no mudguards, nothing to keep your trousers away from the chain (or to protect the drive-train from grit, salt etc.), no luggage-carrying equipment, no bell (and that’s a legal requirement technically!), no rear reflector and so on. By the time you’ve bought and fitted everything you need to turn a nice toy into serious year-round transport, you’ve dropped a lot of extra cash (and god help you if you have the bike shop fit the bits!). It would be an interesting exercise to price some of the “cheap” alternatives on a real apples to apples basis.
It’s a bit disappointing to see that even these high-end commuters don’t protect the chain properly. That partial chain-guard would protect your trousers, but it leaves the chain exposed to the elements, particularly since the front mudguard has no mud-flap, so the front wheel will still throw road grime over the bottom-bracket, chain-ring and chain.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:17 am
I only just noticed… Carbon fibre? What’s up with that?
September 27th, 2007 at 9:29 am
I’m in the midst of building a new wheel for my current commuter (74 Schwinn Speedster 3 speed) with a dynohub. I like a lot of the gear on these and will keep an eye on them for future purchase. I would love to be able to buy a commuter with everything I want on it rather than trying to piece it together. I’ve done that with two different commuter bikes now, I know what I need and this looks like it has everything I would want.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:47 am
To Mike Meyers, I just want to say a few things. First off, I live in a city with pretty bad bicycle theft problems, and I have never had any problem with having any bike stolen. A good Kryptonite, and some locking skewers, and your bike is pretty safe. There is just too much low-hanging fruit out there for the thieves to bother with a bike that is properly secured.
Secondly, it really depends on how you define”identical in function.” I ride a $2,000+ custom bike, that I am sure you must think is about having more money than sense, and my wife rides a $350 POS that I’m sure meets with your approval. Yes, we can both get from point A to point B, so if that is your entire definition of function, then they are identical. However, my bike has crisper, smoother shifting. The frame is stronger and more durable. The chain doesn’t flop around as much, and is not going to pop off going over a curb. My disk brakes have better stopping power, and are more reliable than her cheap v-brakes. I have more comfortable grips. My peddles have more bite, and the bike just generally performs better in every measurable way. She loves her bike, and I am happy for her, but after biking as long as I have been, it would drive me nuts to ride a bike like that.
I really don’t see how stopping ever couple miles because I took a curb too hard and the chain has to be put back on the bike is a virtue. I really don’t see how having to put up with poor braking performance for half a mile because I went through an oily puddle is worth saving a few dollars. It goes on and on, but it basically comes down to the fact that after you have been biking long enough, you know what annoys you, and if you are like me, are willing to pay extra not to deal with those annoyances.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:19 am
[...] Betting high with Civia Cycles [...]
September 27th, 2007 at 11:56 am
a $1000 14-speed rohloff? super, duper, super overkill for a commuter. come on, only an idiot would think he needs one of those to ride to work and back. these are vanity bicycles for rich people, and the only reason they exist is because it’s becoming hip to be into bicycling from a practical standpoint. the carbon fork gives it away.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
by the way, there is an acceptable medium between a $3000 bicycle and a $300 dynacrap bicycle. nice stuff is fun, but it’s stupid to think that you need to spend thousands to get good stuff. my $100 1981 bianchi with upgraded “commuter” components offers an excellent ride with no problems. sure, it doesn’t have an overpriced internal geared hub, but, shock of shocks, the $25 alivio dérailleur seems to work really, really well. or maybe i’m deluding myself?
September 27th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
“I personally think you could build a much nicer, longer lasting, more comfortable bike for a lot less money, especially with the purchasing power of QBP behind you.” ~ Brian
That’s all I’m trying to say as well. But I guess it doesn’t really matter. If this is what you’re after, go for it. The upside is that you’ll be the only person in town that owns one.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
As the movement towards bicycling grows in America, and bikes become more mainstream, I think it’s completely reasonable to think some folks will be willing to pay for a luxury ride like these.
I hear the security concerns, but remember that as more cities become bike-friendly, so do employers and businesses. This means that more and more cities will get more secure and better bike parking facilities where the risk of theft will be reduced. Also, more employers will build bike parking in their buildings.
and I love the marketing. As we need to grow our market beyond the DIY and self-reliant folks that are already riding for transportation, we must appeal to folks that drive Cadillac Escalades and such. This is the type of bike they’d be likely to buy when and if they make the switch to pedal power.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
L.M.—I don’t know where you got the idea I’m against spending money on bikes. I commute on a $2500 Gunnar. I lust for a Vanilla. I understand the difference between OK bikes, good bikes, and great bikes. I’m just saying that the difference on a HYBRID(and that’s what these are) is very slim. My Gunnar is light, fast, and handmade in Wisconsin. These Civias will be none of those things.
As another poster said, if you buy the Civia you’ll be certain to be the only one in your town. $1900 for a Taiwanese singlespeed. Give me a break. The Raleigh One Way is specced with fenders, a Brooks B17, AND Brooks bar tape for $710. The Raleigh Sojourn has all that, a steel frame, a rack, AND discs for $1100. Civias are way too expensive for what you’re getting. You can get a Rivendell Atlantis for that—and fenders and a rack.
September 27th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
These comments are hilarious - and predictable. Thanks for perking up my afternoon smoke break. Here’s what it’s really about. Every ‘market’ in our country is about to be overrun with aging baby boomers spending lots of discretionary retirement money. And they’re likely to gravitate towards perceived quality, and maybe a little nostalgia, even if it’s called a “commuter bike”.
If these Civia bikes and their ilk convince even a few folks to purchase a bicycle instead of a down payment on a Harley, instead of another car for their 3-car garage, instead of a membership to a golf course, then it’s a good thing. Thanks very much to QBP for focusing on more than the lowest common denominator.
September 27th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
I think I might be to blame for all this fancy commuter stuff:….and glad to see it
I have been building bikes with this intent since 2001 and I am very happy to say that the people that buy my fancy commuter bikes actually use them. And find that once they have a bike like this it is so much more fun to ride [and practicle with dyno lighting, racks, fenders etc...] that they get rid of many of their other bikes.
I have been waiting for the day when the big companies finally come out with some stylish commuter bikes, that do not have the “sit up and beg position” of the hybrid market [that they have been trying to dress up as commuters].
Now I still think these new models bikes have a ways to go to get the style and function of my bikes [ANT], but it is getting closer. I wish I had gone to Interbike this year to see it for myself and glad of this blog/site posting these comments [thanks].
I would like to note that I make a complete bike [Boston Roadster] that cost $1995.00 and it is equipped with real parts [no crap fudged in between], comes in 20 sizes and made in the USA.
I am planning on offering an Alfine bike too…just been waiting to be able to actually buy the stuff…it takes forever to get parts like this on a regular basis…and now I see all these biggies get the goods! Well hopefully that will be good for me too. And yes, the Alfine IS expensive. My Alfine bike [again with good parts on it...HS, stem, post etc...no crap slipped in] will be around $3,500.00 fully equipped. I will be showing it At NAHBS.
Sincerely Mike Flanigan/ANT
September 27th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Mike Flanagan—- your bike is worth spending that amount of money on. Custom and handmade? Yes, I’ll spend that much without much debate. Welded together on an assembly line in Taiwan? I don’t think so.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
Wow. All this fuss over an expensive bike in a niche that has yet to be really exploited. Isn’t that what this industry is all about anyways? Finding the ‘next thing’? We’ve already done it with the mountain bike craze of the 90’s. Then that Lance effect came on. 29″ers had a shot at it, but now it appears that weird wheel sizes will take the reigns. Or maybe its these city/commuter/touring bikes(ha! the 70’s return![touring])
jdb up there hit the nail on the head. These specific bikes are not aimed at the DIY fixie crowd. They’re aimed at the chums that shop at coops, read Yoga Journal, Natural Home and Vegetarian Times, and wouldn’t blink at spending this amount of coin on a ‘fashion statement’ as it were[and may I add, I think they're snappy looking bikes]. I really don’t think these Civia’s will be aimed at the savvy, core cyclist like Mike Flanigans customers. ANT’s go to core riders who KNOW what they’re getting, and USE it for exactly what it intended for (and god do I wish I could afford one of his rigs. That patina finish slays me!).
September 28th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Wow…. I must say after reading all these posts, I really think many are missing the point of this bike entirely. This bike as I see it is a car replacement, end of story.
If you are in that place such as I have been for quite awhile putting on 7-10k every year, rain, shine, or snow, then you’ll understand the beauty of a bike like this, where they’ve already put in all the details that a day in day out bike commuter longs for.
I ride in all kinds of stuff all days of the year, towing heavy loads of kids and groceries, going for fun recreational rides in the mountains, cruising 24 miles roundtrip everyday between work and home. After doing this for years, I can easily say, that designing from the ground up with the proper end in mind, this is almost EXACTLY what I would build, and when you think about a 2,100 dollar bike that is TOTALLY sorted to the last detail, then you don’t have to think long about that price compared to the cost of a car or the cost of trying to piecemail something together to the same level of detail. Trust me I’m trying to do that right now and its NOT easy to do especially at this price point.
This probably isn’t for the club racer who just wants to ride to and from work every once in awhile, they won’t get it, and thats fine. But trust me, speaking as one who is already considering saving up for one, and having known more than one person who “sold the car” 2,100 is a small price to pay for a bike that really will do it just right, out of the box.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
I think this bike looks fantastic.
But I have to ask; is this bike based on being Practical …or is it based on being Stylish?
All based on choosing a carbon fiber fork -with a carbon steertube no less!
September 28th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
Its worth noting if you go to their site that they have a very nice steel fork option as well, and I can promise from studying the details on their site that, it certainly is stylish, but function was not compromised in ANY way. My only potential problem them is that it doesn’t appear to have quite enough tire clearance to run a 35c studded tire in the winter time, and from their site it indeed seems to only take up to a 32c with fender clearance.
September 28th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Thank you Anthony, you hit the nail on the head. I live in Minnesota and do not own a car, I ride everywhere. I also am a racer. I have put more money into these types of bikes than my race rig simply because I ride them more. I ride about 20 miles each way to work and was tired of having a old, crappy beat down bike as the bike I put the most miles on. People have no problem spending that amount on road bikes they use on the weekends and ride 30 year old bikes day in and day out, it makes more sense to spend the money on a commuter that you ride everyday and less on the weekend bike, this bike will find a market. These bikes will be tough and able to handle any type of weather condition. I’d like to see Mike commute in January with 6 inches of snow with his Gunnar (or in rain for that matter). Thats why tou use Rolhoffs also, dependibility and performance. Your Ultegra or Dura-Ace will not shift or hold up to the rigors of bad weather riding (you would have to ride in bad weather to figure this out, I have-have you?) By the way, most of the bikes you buy nowadays are made in Tawain and are some great bikes (Such as Giant, Specialized, Orbea, Cervelo Trek and even carbon Bianchis). Also, the Waterford tubing Gunnar uses is modified True Temper tubing that also comes from Tawain. I am buying one of these as soon as they come out!
September 28th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Glars—
1) I commute on my Gunnar in the rain—and we DO get some serious rain here. It does have fenders, you know.
2) True Temper OX Platinum (and ALL True Temper steel) is made in the United States. It says so on the True Temper sticker on the tubeset.
http://www.ionicbikes.com/mtbbikes.html
http://www.peytocycles.com/true-temper-steel-bicycle-tubing/
…and from no less an expert than Henry James(who knows a thing or two about steel tubing)
http://www.henryjames.com/tubing.html
“All True Temper bicycle tubing is made in the United States.”
3) I have no problem with bikes made in TAIWAN, but they need to be priced accordingly.
4) You can get nice bikes with Nexus hubs for far less than the Civias.
If people want to spend ridiculous amounts of money for dedicated commuter hybrids, fine. But this has been tried before, and the largest bike company in the US couldn’t get people to buy fully specced commuters. And Trek wasn’t listing them at two to three grand, either.
September 29th, 2007 at 10:21 am
I also live in Minnesota, have no car, and commute by bike… about 23 miles round trip. I’d been looking forward to a transportation-specific line from Quality, and they came close.
I think that like most of QBP’s complete builds, the cost is mostly frame. Start with a Salsa 29er, which runs $700-800, then upgrade the paint, fork, and add those trick dropouts. It’s at least a grand. Then add a $500 wheelset in the Alfine build, and custom accessories (rack, fender, etc.) that would retail for ~$250 altogether. There are still a couple hundred bucks to make up, and you could probably finish it with something nicer than Ritchey Comp-level stuff. Not exactly a ripoff, but maybe not the best value ever.
I’m disappointed that it’s not an aluminum Casseroll, and since it uses MTB hubs, I can just forget about using it with my 130mm stuff. I guess I’ll just stick with my Cross-Check for now.
September 29th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
I don’t mind spending a lot on my bikes. I’d rather spend $3K on a bike than $100 on a car. I don’t get why so many bikies are cheapskate penny-pinching fools . . . . maybe because they don’t ride enough.
I’ve been riding a bike that is close to these Civias for about a year now. It’s a Specialized Globe City 3.1 with Shimano Nexus 8-sp. While it’s great for all-season riding with commuter-type loads, the bike is *heavy* and I still long for a *light* and strong yet functional (lights, rack, fenders) and stylish bike for commuting. Most of the cross/hybrid/commuter/town bikes sold in the US are made for people who ride them around the block on Memorial Day weekend and Labor Day weekend.
I haven’t seen my ideal commuter yet, and this Civia ain’t it. For starters, I think it has to have a Ti frame (but carbon might be OK) and carbon fork. These internal gear hubs are too heavy, but I don’t need any more than 5-10 gears for my commute. I need flawless shifting (int hubs shine here), because I do it a lot in traffic. Also, a strong rack and bright, dependable, bombproof lights. Flat bar is good, but how about bar ends? And FENDERS!!! CHAINGUARD!!! But please, keep it *light* - minimal steel parts, and no 4 lb. hubs.
September 29th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
750Metro—-I don’t think we’re cheapskates. I’m sure LOTS of us ride expensive bikes. But there has to be a good reason for me to spend that kind of coin, and the Civias aren’t it. No exotic frame material, no whiz bang technological innovation, no hand crafted goodness. Just an aluminum hybrid with a gimmicky 4 pound hub. Nah, that’s OK.
Now, a Trek Portland with proper fenders, a rack, and proper lighting? That would be a SWEET ride.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:57 am
Hey URASucka–
First, it’s MYERS.
Second—nice, deep, intelligent addition to the discourse.
September 30th, 2007 at 7:02 am
I wouldn’t call a Rohloff ‘gimicky’.
September 30th, 2007 at 10:50 am
MM- What’s so sweet about the Portland? It looks like 99% of production hybrid bikes, and as you pointed out, it doesn’t even come with real fenders, a rack, or lights (like most hybrid bikes for US consumption).
Speaking of gimmicky, that’s would I would call disc brakes on a commute bike. Maybe if your commute involves a 15% descent on wet roads you might like disc brakes, but in my area, a lot of guys ride bikes with *no* brakes, and I have a bike I sometimes commute on that has only a front rim brake and it’s fine, even in the rain.
What I meant by cheapskate is that I know guys who spend more on a tank of gas for their $50K SUV than they spend in a year on their commute bike.
September 30th, 2007 at 10:54 am
750Metro—the Trek Portland isn’t a hybrid at all. it’s a cyclocross bike aimed at the commuter market. You thinking of the Soho?
Discs are gimmicky, but if people want them there are better and cheaper options than the Civia.
Lights, fenders, and racks are easily added—-and most LBS would be happy to get the extra money.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
I just came back from Interbike and I have to say that the Civia is very stylish and thought thru well. The price is steep, but if one considers that the Rohloff Speedhub costs about $1300-1400, then $3100 for the complete bike does not seem too bad. The price for the Speedhub alone is beyond what most people are willing or able to spend for a bicycle part. However, when I heared that a fellow in Canada put more than 150,000km on his hub, I thought that he’d made a wise investment.
As for the Speedhub’s weight, the Rohloff literature gives it at 3,7lbs which is just a little bit more than a mtb (XT/XTR) drivetrain and no more than other internally geared hubs with only half of the gears. The NuVinci hub weighs about 9lbs.
This year’s Interbike looked as if it was all about a new category (at least for the US market) of bikes: higher end townees, commuter and touring bikes. In other words, it was about bikes for transportation and recreational riding. Being a bike commuter myself (and a week end dirt rider) I liked the amount of choices comming up for the next riding season.
As a matter of fact, I had a custom winter commuter bike on order and put it on hold at the show because my ideal specifications are not available yet: a bike with a nice frame with integrated rack and color coordinated fenders including the Rohloff Speedhub with carbon belt drive, disc brakes, Schmidt Dyno front hub, Mary bar, Ortlieb panniers and a carbon front fork. Riding in style gets me out of the car even when the weather turns bad, saves me money and spares the environment.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:54 pm
VERY COOL! Way to go Civia.
The Highlander strikes me as a very intelligent, purpose built, functional and elegant design. The detail work and proprietary design elements show a willingness to take a fresh look at the same old thing. My hat is off to Civia for having the courage to pioneer a new market segment with a unique mix of innovation and tradition.
I have a nice bikes (and vehicles for that matter), but the one I ride and enjoy the most has always been my commuter (currently an ‘06 LeMond Poprad Disk w/ 105/Ultegra triple, 28c tires, rack & fenders worth about $2200 including HID light)
Civia is not for those trying to save money by commuting, who store their bikes on a city street or who want a minimalist bike.
For me, an inexpensive commuter bike would be a poor value considering it gets about 400mi/mo, often in rain. The dependability and safety of a lower quality bike with a lot of miles on it is, in my experience, much less. For me, any break downs on the way to work cost me a lot more than buying a nice bike and could leave me a long way from rescue in a dark cold rain. Further more, I’ve had equipment failures cause serious crashes. I feel buying higher quality equipment helps to reduce these risks.
As far as disk brakes, if you commute in the rain and/or the instant response of a disk brake can make all the difference, especially if you have have a load on board. The Alfine disk is a better modulation version of the LX disk, so it should work nicely for this application.
I’m not the biggest fan of aluminum, but the way the seat stays are compound curved should soften up the ride while still providing an otherwise light and stiff frameset.
Have a nice ride,
Ken :^)
October 16th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
Give me my old Ross Mount Whitney over this $31k bike with its 4 lb. hub. I’m more apt to seek out the new Surly Big Dummy as my next urban rig. I’m exciting to see the urban cargo bike sector open up here, and the standardization of the Freeradical packs and outriggers, etc. seems like a great way to move forward.
The Disc brakes do seem like an advantage to me as we get closer to the sloppy winter weather. Thus far I’ve only used cantis and v-brakes and dual pivot road calipers on my older steeds.
I would love a light internal geared hub that will be more weatherproof than the external gearing that we all love to clean and oil in the spare time. I have an old raleigh from the 50s and its bottom bracket has one of those oiler ports on it– the dang thing spins like it just won’t quit, after all this time. Something old, something new… bikes just keep right a-rollin’. High on my list too is a front hub generator with minimal friction, standlight functions, and bike-specific handlebar gps with mapping capability. Carbon forks are definitely an improvement over the old rigid steel or aluminum ones, IMHO.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:14 am
I recently moved to Omaha, NE to get married and my fiance and I made the decision to sell her car, let her drive mine (her job necessitates a car) and i would bike commute. I have spent the last 3 weeks reading about and look at every possible commuter bike option out there. I have an idea about what I will need/want (fenders, mud flaps, lights, reflectors, rack, panniers, etc…) and after pricing all those things I can easily come in under $3100. Now perhaps it isn’t a carbon fork, or a $1300 hub, but with care hopefully it will last 10 years at least.
On the issue of pure price, it is all about need and value. Do I need what this bike offers? Is it worth the price they are asking? No one can answer these questions for anyone else, and for me, at least now this bike isn’t an option. But then again after looking at the Portland I think I coudl get more for my money somewhere else.
Just my thoughts
ride often, ride hard
November 5th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
The bikes look incredible if you ask me. I see both sides. It does seem like a lotta dough, then again not many people think much about it when someone spends $50,000 on Dummer. I don’t understand what the Alfine group is about. Maybe I should find out since I own a shop.
November 13th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
The neighbor across the alley has two motorcycles in his garage, some kind of crotch rocket and a Harley. That’s the only place I’ve ever seen them. I’d be willing to bet that a lot of Civias would end up being “garage queens”, just as most of the bikes sold in the US are As we all know, only used books have less value than used bikes, so in the not too distant future we’ll be able to buy one of these at a big discount. But if QBP can sell some, more power to them.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:04 am
If this was for sale in the UK i’d buy it! Its a great commuter for the reasons stated above.
Like many of the posters here, i earn an reasonbale wage , my peers drive new cars to work. My bike is a car replacement i need one or the other. Since this costs less than runing a car for a year, can be bought for a 40% tax break (cheers chancellor) and probably has a 50% resale value minimum, i think its practically free!
re bike theft , cycle insurance costs me £50 a year, i’ve never had a bike stolen in 20 years, despite commuting with top end bikes.
PS I Really like the pooh pooh Brown, its very anti-cool!
PPS Actaully can i get one of these in the UK, i need to replace my tourer with something that will take a child seat and this ticks every box…
November 17th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Has anyone used/seen the Giant CRX CityPro? - Looking at one as they are quite minimal - Nexus hub, Afine bits and sold with fenders and a rack! AUD1300. Here in Canberra we don’t really need fenders as it only rains a couple of times a year! (Seems that way anyway). I know it’s not handbuilt with love, but hey, my car came off a production line too!
November 21st, 2007 at 1:15 am
too much for a commuter -sweet bikes though
November 29th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
I live near QBP and a couple of weeks ago, I called them up and arranged a test ride on the Rohloff version. It was sweet! Surprisingly light, very quick. The aluminum frame and composite fork did a good job of absorbing the road shocks — very important considering the poor roads we have here in Minnesota!
I put my order in for a blue one in the first production batch in April. I sort of liked the pooh pooh brown too. Unfortunately, production is only going to be blue or sort of a light green — both matt finish.
December 2nd, 2007 at 9:41 am
Fascinating bicycles, regardless, eh? And equally fascinating that these are being marketed in the land of the SUV. I ride to work in Tallahassee, Florida, on a ‘93 Bridgestone MB-3 that’s been totally rebuilt from the ground up into a high-zoot commuter with fenders, heavy-duty rack, brass bell, and Brooks saddle. It works great for me, but if I were in the market again, I’d consider these bikes. The Dutch bikes are OK, but I’m kind of snobby about details, and the high-end English and Swedish bicycles are just not easily available.
Frankly, the carbon fork thing isn’t my cup of tea, but the idea of a high-end commuter is. The point of a good bike, instead of a beater for a commuter, if you can deal with the security issue, is that it is not only dependable, safe, and handles well, but that it’s a nice ride. Many beater commuter bikes are just not fun to ride, and that is a critical factor when you’re already facing all kinds of headwinds being a commuter in the U.S. And yes, the Civia is expensive, but many weekend warriors spend at least that much on their bicycles, and then more. That Rohloff is very appealing, and just how many people spend that much on a laptop that they use for a few years and then upgrade?
I’d like to have one in black, sort of like the SR-71 Blackbird. The brown is kinda ugly, IMHO.
December 16th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Yuppie cycle.
December 30th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
Aubrey- I don’t suppose you might be the guy who owns that awesome little shop on 53rd street eh?
(I’m being vague of course)
As for the civia… I’d say hats off to QBP and Scott for taking a risk bringing a super high-end commuter to the US market. There’s few enough people that can appreciate this bike, and I’d say most of those people are quite capable of specing and building something similar for cheaper anyway… that’s the point of some of these comments. I’d notice though that currently no one will sell you a ready-for-anything-out-of-the-box all purpose commuter, and I’d think that’s the real market for these. Question remains of course- how many of us who *want* something like this are going to pay the additional cost of buying it from Civia instead of having it built ourselves from whatever bits and pieces strike our fancy…
And something else to consider. How heavy can you load this thing up before it starts misbehaving? To me it looks a bit like a koga-miyata, and I wonder if it can perform like one as well…
January 8th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Check out the Kind Bikes Commuter:
http://kindbike.com/index.php/bikes/commuter/
February 16th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Great design - that high priced bike needs stop’n go support. With electric assist - demobilising via breaking the wheel is possible if the user does not authenticate- or sirens may go off if the wheel moves… .
March 18th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Old thread, but here’s my 2 cent’s worth: I just commissioned my new commuter: Ti frame, disc brakes, Rohlof hub, Chris King and Phil Woods build up, $5000. Why go so big? I ride every day in all kinds of weather and this bike will be the most dependable, longest lasting, lowest maintenance bike I could create. I’ve broken steel frames, my current commuter is a one speed at the moment - frozen dérailleur, I scared the poop out of myself last weak due to poor braking performance - rim brakes get glazed in a week in snow and salt conditions. The new bike will address all of these problems, and most of the parts are guaranteed for ten years or more so I don’t have to buy a new bike every two years. Anyone who thinks hanging derailleurs and rim brakes are good options for four season cycling must live in a great climate - that junk does not hold up to snowy conditions.
In summary, I think these bikes look like a good idea.
June 22nd, 2008 at 4:53 pm
My (very late) 2 cents is that the average commuter would be much, much better off with a Novara from REI. The Transfer (26″ wheels, Nexus 7, full fenders/rack/lights/gen hub, $600!) and the Fusion (700c, one step up, Nexus 8, $750) are two great options.
Is the Novara Transfer laden with high end parts? No. Is it as sexy as this Hyland? No. But does it offer all the commuter needs/wants (internal gearing, lighting, fenders, rack, good riding position). Yes.
http://www.rei.com/product/744802